Skip to content

Document Header

Content Header

  • Was sorta expecting Pride to just give up and give Ben a hug, but I guess Pride always has to make it about themself, huh? :P

    Also: SKREEEEEEEEE

    • Tsapki

      Beware the Peacock Pony!

  • Nightsbridge

    Poor guy.

    • Maria Gerasimova

      Who is? Pride?

      • Nightsbridge

        I’m sure they think so.

  • Nightsbridge

    Pride is an interesting sin, in that, especially in comparison to the others, their great vice only appears to be negative in great quantities. In ordinary circumstances of the everyday, small amounts of pride seems not only acceptable, but healthy.

    I have an awful feeling if Syd hadn’t dragged Ben back, he would have just let pride eviscerate him, because he drove his self-loathing deliberately up that high.

    • Basil Sage

      Aren’t the deadly sins all the same way? Lust, greed and gluttony are “what if wanting things, but too much”, wrath, envy and pride are exaggerations of normal expressions of a sense of self, and sloth is conservation of energy taken to extreme.

      • Nightsbridge

        Yes, but this is especially obvious with Pride here. Envy, Gluttony and Wrath have expressed themselves through the medium of their main emotions. Their envy, their rage, their gluttony was in of itself dangerous.

        Pride, on the other hand, traps people in mirrors as a sort of . . . captive source of Pride, but that’s not what the problem is. The problem is that people are trapped. Pride is the means by which they operate, but it is the end, not the means, that is threatening.

        • Heylir

          I’d say a part of that Envy was doing in the Royal Theater is quite like Pride’s strategy. It didn’t capture Ben into an mirror, literally, but he was equally helpless and a power source for Envy, among many others. And two of puppets were “trapped” with Envy’s strings.

          Pride was proud of itself, but trying make others proud of themself, too, in order to turn them into its “food”. Envy made others envious (through its show or direct influence), for the same purpose.

    • CountSessine

      Good point, that Ben is doing it deliberately. He does have these feelings all the time, but what he just did was crank them up to eleven, on purpose, because he was smart enough to see that was the only way to win.

  • Alex Krastel

    Probably not a great sign how much I identify with him…

  • Me-me

    This is straight from my life.
    “How are you?”
    “Terrible, thanks for asking.”

    • Rando

      and “I have no friends, only people obligated to be around me!”

      • SteelSaurus

        This line perfectly summarizes my life. I’ve searched so long for an expression like this and have failed time and time again to devise it myself. I mean, from the get go of this self inflicted humiliation conga, I’ve just felt a connection to Benny more than ever before. A pervasive feeling of inadequacy.

        Thank you for this.

  • pingo1387

    I feel like it does make sense that since Ben was so poor against Envy, he’s great at facing down Pride, and vice-versa with Verity…

  • Punkpoemprose

    Poor Ben! But also well done Ben!

  • Heylir

    *sigh* Oh, you’re so wrong in the top right panel, Ben… but absolutely right in the last one, thank goodness. :)

    Well done, you both.

    • Maria Gerasimova

      It’s third panel :)

      • Heylir

        Fixed.

    • Azmodan

      Eh, depends on his definition of friend. Some people throw the term around to mean anyone they are on even remotely friendly terms with, while others actually apply the word to people that they hang out with more than to work.

      He may just view them as acquaintances or coworkers since all they do is work together, even if they do get along.

      • Maria Gerasimova

        He may, but he doesn’t.
        It seems, he just never had friends – exept perhaps Vee, and doesn’t know what friendship is like.
        I’m sure he would be happy Mal and Wolfe consider him as their friend, but thinks he is somehow unwhorty.
        And perhaps also thinks they two are too close to stuck there as an unwelcome third.
        He is mistaken, of course, but he can see it so.

        • TheGorram Batguy

          Yes. And he may be friendly with Vee, but she’s FAMILY so that doesn’t count as an earned friendship.

          • Euodiachloris

            Family counts as family. For all our sins. ;P

      • Heylir

        Even putting aside everything else, this smile of Ben in the last panel there ( http://www.widdershinscomic.com/wdshn/september-16th-2016/ ) doesn’t let me buy that. :)

        I think it is just a form of self-loathing, “Nobody likes me, and no-one wants to be around me unless they have to”.

        • Pizkie

          There’s a pretty big gulf between “these people don’t want me dead” and “these people are my friends”. It would not surprise me if Ben’s smile was mostly genuine surprise and happiness at realising the former.

  • Ghostdanser

    I like the top left panel, where it looks like Ben’s words are physically hurting Pride.

    A literal verbal smack-down, so to speak.

  • Carcharadon

    He looks like getting that all off his chest and out in the open has made him relieved and happy – which is quite an unnatural look on him.

    • Maria Gerasimova

      Not literally happy, I think, but somehow an anew born man.
      At least I hope so.

  • There’s nothing like a bit of existential despair to destroy Pride. May I present Mr Benjamin Thackerey- Widdershins’ version of the Doom Bell.

  • Greenwood Goat

    – “How could you do this to me?!

    – “Well, I’m not proud of it, but it needed doing!”

    >:=)>

    • AJ

      Aheh aheh aheh.

    • guesting

      “Is that a pun?! You should be ashamed of yourself!! Oh, wait…”

  • Maria Gerasimova

    What makes me admire, it’s Ben’s combative spirit!
    We know he’s very brave and daring while always seems a rather polite and quiet man.
    But here – it’s just marvelous!
    While Sid tows him away from the danger, he is still kicking and shouting out the worst insults the words most hurtful, painful for Pride… and himself.

    A darling fearless cockerel, Chanteclaire :)

    “Будьте милостивы, братцы, дайте чуточку додраться!” (~”Pray favor, bros, gimme just a teeny-weeny possibility to end my brawl!” – from our Russian tale in verses “Конёк-горбунок” – “The little humpbacked horse”)

    • Heylir

      “Not even an hour ago, I nearly had us all eaten by Gluttony!.. And I just sat there and watched! Didn’t do a thing!” – “Now YOU get it for them and yourself together!”

    • Talewinds

      One of my favorite Russian tales!

  • Darkoneko Hellsing

    A round of applaudes from the people he just saved (well, a while later) will do him a lot of good <3

    • Maria Gerasimova

      I’m afraid his fate is to never get a well deserved praise :(

  • Sorry about the sudden arrival of Disqus ads, btw- they’re very much not by choice! I’m looking into replacement options. I was able to get rid of the horrible video ones, at least, now we’re just down to ugly tabloid headlines at the bottom of the site…

    • TachyonCode

      Disqus does ads, now? Oh, I am *very* upset about that, but not at anyone who uses Disqus to make comments sections a thing!

      Also I cannot see these ads. I suppose I should whitelist this site.

      EDIT: Whitelisted, and I do see sponsored content at the bottom. Not really a big deal as I rarely make it down the page that far.

      • I was able to whittle down the ads to as unintrusive a state as possible, but they’re still weird and I don’t want them on my site :/

    • Jess

      Do you get paid more if I whitelist the disqusads script? I’ve have projectwonderful whitelisted for that reason and will do the same for disqusads if so.

      • I don’t get paid at all for the disqus ads, so feel free to block ’em! I really appreciate you asking, thank you!

        • Common Sense

          You are a subversive, y’know that? Subversive!

    • Kore

      It seems like (with a bit of hassle) you could get the ads removed as a small nonprofit: https://help.disqus.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2542532-how-to-disable-advertising

      • I actually did that a few months ago, apparently its only for sites with less than 50k pageviews per month, which we exceed :(

        • Kore

          That is lame. I don’t suppose you meet their requirements to get money from them, either? That would be too easy.

          What are all the scripts/ads to be whitelisted, by the way?

        • ChaosControl

          Hey, at least that means your comics pretty popular!

    • Killersquirrel66

      NoScript keeps blocking potential XSS attempts from them, which is rather annoying but does mean I haven’t actually seen them yet…

      • you’re missing nothing :|

    • non_canon

      The way I figure it, this comic and the comments section attached provide enough enjoyment to more than make up for a few adds.

  • Sal

    GET OUT NORMIES
    SKREEEEEEEEEEE

  • Del

    Humble confession of our weaknesses is the antidote to Pride!

    Well played, Mrs. Ashwin!

    I know that look on Ben’s face in the final panel. It is not pride in having overcome the monster…. It is the relief of having purged his own pride and insecurities.

    • Maria Gerasimova

      I am not sure it’s relief…
      Two decades or so ago I had a cat… And then there were not Frontline and such means against fleas.
      And once then I had to wash her, my poor thing, with kerosene.
      After that she looked just as Ben in the last panel…

      • Heylir

        Well, Ben certainly would prefer kerosene before fleas, though, of course, Frontline is better than both. :)

        One can say he has gone through purgatory, in more than one sense of the word.

      • aw, poor kerosene kitty! mine already hate the frontline, i think they’d leave me if i had to bring out kerosene!

        • Darastrix

          Mine hate it, too. Frontline in this area has pretty much stopped working; you may as well use water. So now we’re using Advantage. The cats don’t like it any better; one of them has to be wrapped up in a towel like a little burrito so it can be applied. It’s a two-person job.

          • Euodiachloris

            Cats: making us wonder how they do the deadly, greased octopus from a cold start since circa 4 000 BCE. :P

        • M. Peach

          We use Revolution, a bit pricey but worth it since the fleas here developed a resistance to Frontline (and with Revolution we don’t have to worm them, it kills all the parasites). I never heard of using kerosene before. I suspect that would be a bit hard on the kitty’s system…
          And Ben looks like he punched himself out with that self loathing speech.

  • Scottygroundhog

    I just see that gif of sherlock saying ” I don’t have friends”

    • Heylir

      …I’ve just got one? :) Oh no, it is wrong, too.

      • Scottygroundhog

        If you watch the show in context the scene is heartbreaking. But if you google the gif out of context it is hilarious.

  • Tsapki

    So did anyone familiar with Steven Universe get a mild Peridot vibe from Ben in the last panel?

    • Haha, he’s quite Peridot in a lot of ways, really.

      • Euodiachloris

        Neat freak, grammar Nazi, perfectionist, differently social, learning to unwind (a little)… Hmmmm.

        Not enough yellow-green. ;P

  • Mr Hats

    This is probably fine

  • Shihchuan

    Makes you wonder why pride is a deadly sin while its polar opposite is not……

    • TheGorram Batguy

      Your question has peaked my interest. Thinking about it, I’d suppose the polar opposite of pridefulness would be, in medieval terminology, melancholy. And melancholy was perceived to be a physical ailment, brought about by an imbalance in the humours. So Pride is a sinful act, whereas self-loathing and depression are a sickness that would not be the fault of the sufferer, I’d suppose, and so are not sinful as such.
      Of course, there are those past and present who like to dismiss the mental illness of depression as “sloth”.

    • JWLM

      Because pride’s polar opposite is humility.

      Pride is arguably the greatest of all sins, and humility the greatest of all virtues. Humility is recognizing your sins and recognizing your limitations, and reforming. If you recognize yourself to be envious, you will commit to generosity, slothful, diligent, etc. Pride is the exact opposite: you will deny your own jealousy, clinging to it when you should renounce it, etc.

      • Dvarin

        Though what Ben’s doing here isn’t humility, it’s way more like self-pity. Which works well as a counter, but isn’t a virtue because it’s still self-focused.

        • Shihchuan

          Precisely. In my view there exists a ‘healthy pride’ (self-confidence) which is as much a virtue as ‘healthy’ humility, while ‘unhealthy’ lack of self-esteem/inferiority/self-deprecation/self-pity is as much a sin as Pride (as is used in its traditional sense). But perhaps it wasn’t viewed as destructive or wrong in Medieval times, where humans were ‘supposed’ to view themselves as inferior (to God)……

          • JWLM

            Well, no. In Christian theology, there is no such thing as “healthy pride” — all people are sinners, we are all fallen, and there’s nothing we ourselves can do about it.

            No, that’s *not* very nice. As they’d say on TV Tropes: as far as Christian theology goes, in a very literal sense, Good is not nice.

            • billydaking

              Actually, it’s important not to confuse the modern definition of pride with the definition that Christian theology derives from. The sin of “pride” was meant for hubris or dangerously destructive selfishness and a complete absence of humility.

              • Maria Gerasimova

                Entre nous, Ben’s humility is pretty decently thickly underlaid with some pride… Fortunately – without any arrogance and complacency. And very much underfed too :)
                But it’s namely his ‘healthy pride’, as Shihchuan has put it, makes him so obsessed with cleanness, neatness, politeness and so on.
                As well as doesn’t allow him ever to neglect his Duty.

                “May I be less talented, less smart, less handsome then errmm… everyone around me, and shortest too, – but I never let myself to be and to look just a tiny bit worse than I am actually”.
                That’s where his perfectionism grows from.

            • Shihchuan

              Good to know that I wasn’t that wrong about (what I know of/how I feel about) Christian theology…:p

          • Dvarin

            I am not sure if you would group them together as “unhealthy inferiority”, but to me there is a significant difference between “I am not extra-special, I am insignificant without {god, friends, my people, my love, whatever}” and “There is no one so pitiful and woeful as I.” The former I read as humility, and usually as a virtue. The latter reads as yet another form of Pride, just one where one is declaring oneself to be special and great by reason of one’s superlative terribleness rather than superlative awesomeness.
            Self-pity isn’t the *opposite* of pride IMO, it’s just a particularly odd flavor of it.

            • Shihchuan

              That is another interesting angle: we could then suggest that the defining feature of pride would not be whether one has a positive or negative image about themselves, but whether they are caught in the process of constantly comparing with people surrounding them and trying to gain the “most ___” title.

        • JWLM

          Absolutely, although that’s not the question I was answering.

          Nevertheless, although I could argue that most of the folks in the pictures exhibited at least legitimate shame, Ben’s certainly not exhibiting humility as he is self-hatred.

          • Dvarin

            Ah, yes, sorry. Meant to agree with/enhance your comment, not argue with it. What Ben’s doing here doesn’t match any of your criteria for humility.

        • billydaking

          What Ben (and Sid) is doing is projecting an absence of pride (and self-worth). Pride the Deadly needs that emotion to grip into; the vacuum of pride that Ben keeps throwing in the Deadly’s face (love the “slap” in the third panel) evaporates Pride’s hold on everyone, thus the mirrors cracking.

    • Amy

      Actually, it sort of used to be, though I’d say it was depression in general vs. self-loathing specifically – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins#Acedia

      Of course, Acedia was combined into sloth and lost the “literally depression” meaning, which I think we can all be glad is no longer considered a Sin because *yikes*

  • Brother Nightmare

    I think we’ve broke Ben… Then again, he did seen to try very hard to break…

    • Maria Gerasimova

      === I think we’ve broke Ben… ==
      Never!!!
      :)

  • Tikatu

    Is Pride weakened enough? I hope so!

  • D. Schwartz

    Yup, therapy for everyone.

  • =Tamar

    “Are you okay?” “No.” calls back to the book, _I’m OK,You’re OK_.

  • MoeLane

    Ben: GET YOUR HANDS OFF ME! I BOUGHT A FULL BAG OF SELF-LOATHING AND BITTER REGRETS, JUST FOR THIS FIGHT, AND I DIDN’T SAVE THE RECEIPT!

    Sid: Dammit, Ben! ENOUGH! …Enough. You broke it, OK? You broke things *inside* it. Stop punching it just to hear it whimper. For the love of God, Ben. For the love of *God*.

  • Nonesuch

    Oh, Ben…. ;_;
    You do have friends, and at least one cousin who loves you!
    And heck, if you could break through the fourth wall, you’d know there are lots of folks on ourside who love you.

    Once Pride is down, you really should be told so.

    • Heylir

      Now, if Kate makes another Q&A page in future, the fourth wall wouldn’t be an obstacle. :)))

      • JWLM

        “Hey, Sid? Why did you make Ben cry during the battle with Pride? Did you really think that was fair?”

  • Nonesuch

    If someone tries to reward Sid for what is done here at Widdershins U., I hope he’ll stand aside in favour of Ben after this.

  • Heylir

    At this time Sid is dragging away not knocked-out muscular Wolfe, but very conscious Benjamen, “heavy fer a little bloke”. :) Well, rescuing others isn’t the worst thing to do.

    Still, I am looking forward to the Sid’s kicking a Deadly’s ass. :) And now I begin to wonder if Sid’s magpie got scared of seven Deadlies, too, and flew away.

    • non_canon

      I am amused that he was able to do both when compared to the scene of both Wolfe and Mal carrying Ben out, but I’m sure adrenaline is kicking in to help.

      I also very much suspect that Ben will take out Sloth and Sidney will take out Greed, because that would make a nice narrative circle.

      • Maria Gerasimova

        I’d like very much Ben to take out Sloth.
        But he is really tired. And absolutely drained by his highly emotional cathartic act just now. I’m afraid he can just fall asleep… But I’ll hope he’ll be able to overcome his exhaustion.

        As for Sid taking out Greed, I fully agree with you. It can be. Sid has seen it and knows this enemy. And did not succomb before its temptation.

        • non_canon

          I’m wondering how that will affect Ben as well, especially considering all the references made to him being tired this chapter. Although I’m hoping if he does fall asleep it’s more like he fights it until they beat Sloth and then falls asleep.

        • JWLM

          It could go either way. One way is that Sloth equates to sleep, in which case, Ben is in deep deep trouble. The other is that sloth involves not working, in which case Ben, who is going on despite utter exhaustion, will be totally resistant.

          I’m looking forward to seeing how Kate handles it…

    • JWLM

      Sid was the one who thought up the attack against Wrath.

  • Hikarisakurariver

    the urge to hug Ben right now is over whelming… and maybe pat Sidney on the head a bit and tell him we know he didn’t mean to send Ben into some sort of mental breakdown.

  • Emily

    That last panel looks like an “I’m really not okay, but I’m going to pull myself forcibly together and pretend I am until this is all over and I can collapse in private” kind of expression…

  • hariman

    Shame, along with Humility, are both opposites of Pride.

  • I never knew my mother. She left before I was born.

    • Maria Gerasimova

      Ben is not Rincewindesque at all, I think. He never runs away.

      • Heylir

        The absolute antithesis (within a frame-set of similar parameters), I would say. :) And I think there are objective reasons for this. For example, the differences between wizard educational systems in both worlds (not to say about the differences between the worlds) or that Ben’s mother is alive (and going to hate his new haircut, if I remember correctly.) :)

        • Maria Gerasimova

          Sorry, I know you love (have a great sympathy to) Rincewind too… But I have to say – even in the realities of the Diskword if you don’t want to be a coward, you have not to.
          Let’s mention at least that quiet little auditor (can’t recall his name, alas) which Vimes – or it was Carrot? – made a guard on the spot.
          And very effective and brave guard, tbh.
          :)

          So it’s up to… each one.

          • Heylir

            > if you don’t want to be a coward, you have not to.

            Certainly. And “Sourcery” proves that, doesn’t it? :)

            I meant not antithesis “brave-cowardly”, but “less important” things, like Rincewind having neither degree (until much later time) nor friends that Ben has got. Whatever Benjamen himself thinks about that.

            • Maria Gerasimova

              Well at least Rincewind has Librarian as a friend. This last equals a squad :)

              • Euodiachloris

                The Librarian is a platoon. I don’t know what the Luggage is… And, I don’t want to. ;P

          • non_canon

            Vimes.

        • Maria Gerasimova

          A propos… I’d like people see your fanfics concerning Ben.
          At least “Диплом” (The Degree). But it has to be translated…

          • Heylir

            The Duff-degree. ))

            • Maria Gerasimova

              I’ll take it into consideration ;P

      • To be perfectly honest, I misremembered that line as being a Rodney Dangerfield joke.

        • Maria Gerasimova

          Perhaps you are right :)
          Pratchett, having worked in postmodernist style, could use this joke, borrowing it from Dangerfield and giving it to Rincewind.

  • tinwatchman

    Yeah — that’s a “totally gonna hang myself after all this is over, it’s gonna be great!” expression if I’ve ever seen one. Suggest Sidney and the others keep a careful eye on him.

  • Aydr

    …O-oh…. I hadn’t read this comic for a few updates…

    …these last few pages kinda hurt.

  • Johannes Hjortshøj

    Man, imagine pride being dumbed in a classroom full of emos.

  • Matthieu Cravatte

    I love his maniacal expression! Those two or three strips are exceptional!

  • Spirit22

    Sorry to point this out, but I just noticed a continuity error. The doors in panel three are on the wrong side of the wall to be closed as they are in panels four and five. Sid and Ben need to be pulling the doors closed, not pushing them.

    On a positive note: I do love how Ben’s deprecating comment about himself was like a punch to the face for pride.

  • megan

    I dunno if I’m morbid or what but I just really love Ben in this state–

  • Michael Haneline

    Green Day seems appropriate here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN_j-l1zLeQ

  • Matt [in Middletown]

    “I’m completely cracked! Hah hah!”

  • CyberSkull

    That’s a load off his chest.

  • Blueberrykittens

    “Are you ok?”
    “No! :) ”

    omg

    Thank you for your hard work, it’s stunning as always.

  • At..at least he’s honest?!!

  • The Occupant

    I think I like Pride. She’s so . . . fabulous.

  • Shelby Babcock

    Ben’s face in the last panel reminds me of Peridot. “Are you okay?” “No”.

Primary Sidebar